Martha: As you were walking along the street she talked about Judson Poets’ Theater. The timing of that moment in the film is really potent. We’ve seen her grappling with memory loss, but she remembered Judson and she knew exactly where it was.
Michelle: And Irene always knew who I was in a certain sense. There was never any question that we were very close and that we were working on something together. People ask, does she know who you are? I say, she knows what I am. She may not know who I am, but she knows that there’s love, and that there’s warmth. There was always that connection between us. It still exists but not in the sense of name recognition or even face recognition any more. It’s more: let me touch your hand.
Martha: What was your process in turning the footage into a film? Did you bring other people in?
Michelle: It was just a complete joy to make with her, and it was a nightmare to edit. We just kept shooting without any intention. That’s what documentary is, but I had never done it before. We have so much footage from all these years. How do we end it and what do we do with it and how do we even structure it?
I first hired editor Shelby Siegel, who ended up as a very close friend and a producer and consultant on the film. At the time we were asking: what is the story?
I ended up going to NYU film school for a semester, just to make this one film—I didn’t have the same ambition that everyone else around me had to make narratives. We got another grant and I took a leave. I hired other editors along the way, then I put it aside for a few years.
We did a fifteen-minute excerpt in 2008 that I gave to Migdalia Cruz who would show it when she was teaching because she always felt it was helpful to have Irene in the room. She showed it at a conference in 2012 or so, which led to an email from Erik Ehn. “I just watched this piece on Irene Fornés and why isn’t this film finished and what can I do to help you?” He brought me to Brown in 2013 for two months as a visiting scholar with housing.
I did another residency at McDowell and came to terms with the fact that there was no way I would ever be able to edit this alone. We got money to hire editor Melissa Neidich, whose mother had Alzheimer’s, so she had a real understanding of the sensitivity of the material.
Martha: How did you land on the discursive, dreamlike structure for the finished film?
Michelle: We realized that it’s not going to work unless it’s coming from Irene, unless she’s taking us through her memories and through her life. She would have a memory and I’d say, okay, we have to go find the footage to fill in that memory. She mentions Susan Sontag so we would need a moment with Susan Sontag. She was guiding us and telling us. She didn’t want to talk about her plays. Irene really didn’t remember the details about her plays anymore, but she was talking about off off Broadway and Cuba all the time.
Martha: The role of song and dance in the film is marvelous. There’s a joyous editing choice of having her lovely light spirit dancing at the beginning and dancing at the end.
Michelle: She had a real sense of musicality in her work and in her life that came out naturally. It was all so spontaneous, on the street, singing or dancing in Cuba and on beaches. She really loved musicals, loved going to the theatre. She didn’t always love what she saw, but she loved the experience of being in the theatre. She says that the reason they came to the US was that her mother loved American movies. Our film’s title, The Rest I Make Up, is taken from lyrics to one of Ireneʼs songs in Promenade: “I know everything. Half of it I really know, the rest I make up.”
Martha: How active was Irene in the editing the piece?
Michelle: Irene started the editing process with us. She would watch the footage and sit with us. In Miami when I was going through footage, I would sit with her and her sister Carmen. We’d watch moments and I’d ask, “What do you think, this one or this one?”
As she was watching the footage she’d say, “That’s me! Look at me!” She knew how incredible she was. “I want more me!” she would say. “Enough of people talking. I want more me!”
When she stopped responding to the camera, that’s the end of shooting the film. Because that’s the collaboration. I had no interest in documenting something that she might not be aware of, or being a fly on the wall in a scene where she doesn’t know the camera’s there. That would have been a betrayal to our collaboration. The idea was not to document Irene’s decline in any way but is to document her vitality and her spirit and how much like her plays she actually is, in so many ways. Maintaining a sense of her dignity was always at the forefront in the editing process. To have it be a film for which Irene would be in the front row giving herself a standing ovation was the goal
Martha: Describe some of your reactions during the MOMA screening.
Michelle: With a play, you have no idea how all the elements are going to come together on opening night. Are the actors going to be on point? Are the lights going to work? When you do a film that you’ve been working on for fifteen years, you think you know what you’ve made. The premiere event felt like we were at a play. It didn’t feel like a movie premiere, it felt like we were in a community of people that knew Irene, were fans of hers, or just knew me.
The laughter was really surprising to me. She’s hilarious, and there are funny moments, but people were laughing at things that I didn’t think they would be laughing at. People laughed at her response to her memory loss. I don’t think that people really anticipated that Irene was going to be so frank and candid about what was happening to her in the moment.
There’s a great quote that she has about one of her own plays, that humanity is much more moving when people aren’t crying over themselves. Irene doesn’t for a moment pity herself. She has moments where she’s really thoughtful about what’s happening to her, and sad, and they quickly turn into something else, which is a lot like her theatre. Before you can even digest that moment, you’re onto another moment where it’s completely flipped on its head.
As a filmmaker, you spend a lot of time in a little room with hundreds and hundreds of hours of footage, and you don’t know what you’re going to do with it, and finally you do something with it, and you don’t know how people are going to respond. It was a relief—there were no glitches in the film, the power didn’t go out, there was no missing footage. When the end credits came on, I just felt this dissolving from my shoulders: oh wow, the film is done.
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